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Thunderhill -- April 15th and 16th (1 viewing) (1) Guest
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ioport
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Comp School
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NASA moved Spec E46 and GTS into Group D because PRC could not sustain enough entries and Group C is oversubscribed. Will they let us out and into Group C? Maybe, but I won't be voting for it. We have been through this before. I have raced in Group C many times, and Group D with all of its faults is better. Yes, at this point you need to join PRC at $54/year. Yes, the entry is $20/event higher than Group C. In exchange we have to suffer stricter rules and more drivers meetings. We also get: Cleaner Track Time, More Track Time (due to Group C having more crashes), grid by lap time, Way nicer trophies (if Group C even gets trophies and if we have enough entries 2 weeks before the event), a split start, early Thunderhill Sunday race so you can get back on the road, and if you buy into it and stick around, a welcoming family within the group.
As it stands right now, Spec E46 and GTS do not have to pay membership or the extra entry fee. They also are not awarded the cool trophies. They do have to sit through the first-timer lecture and all the drivers meetings. It seems a bit unfair, but still better than Group C. If you want Group C, enter as PT class as mentioned earlier.
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Ken Myers
I/O Port Racing Supplies
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rd7839
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Endurance Racer
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- Posts: 625
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We don't need to rehash the pros and cons of PRC, we've been down that road many times but it does seem to keep people away. I'm not sure why we have to pay a membership fee however on top of our, well membership fee. We aren't part of them, not really. Most of the guys are welcoming with a few glaring exceptions, but I still don't feel part of the club. When I had that guy who purposely tried to put me in the wall SEVERAL times because I tried to pass him during qualifying, after the shoving match where it was 5 guys against me we had a sitdown with PRC. The guy admitted to swerving at me because he thought we were under yellow and he didn't want me interfering with his hotlap(he was the slowest all weekend and slower than me for sure in a spec 911). I had video as well but I got lectured and he got nothing. The message was that Spec 911 guys are more important than us and that we are a necessary evil. I've never forgotten that so when we sit through the meetings where they talk about the silly rules, I have to bite my tongue knowing they don't apply to us. For the record that guy was kicked out and asked not to come back to a NASA event, not because of me but because he did similarly stupid things to other PRC drivers.
Running with PRC for the most part otherwise is not so bad but since we are there not by choice we shouldn't have to pay extra and we should have a say in how we run OUR races. I think the spin and come in rule is crazy, especially in a race.
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ChuckS
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Seasoned Racer
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I have not done a NorCal, PRC based race so it is unfair to make any comment, but it IS the whole PRC thing that makes the rest of us hesitate to make the trip up north.
Also the groups must be quite different between NorCal and SoCal. Our groupings change depending on the number and class of registrations, BUT, we are almost always grouped with Spec E30. Our 944 Spec group plays extremely well with each other and we play well with Spec E30. On occasion, Spec Miata is added. That is when we sometimes have problems as they tend to hit each other a lot and occasionally us. Most of the time we do not have to race with them until the end as we are given our own green flag (as they and Spec E30 are). So, it is a joy to race with NASA SoCal.
Some of the other advantages are that (1) NASA SoCal is less expensive than POC, PCA, BMWCCA and SCCA to race with. I used to race with POC and PCA, but have switched due to the cost and to have more 944 Spec cars to race with. (2) NASA SoCal is extremely well run. (Another of the selling points that brought me over) Our Race Director is great. Contact is very frowned upon and if he deems you to be at fault, you can be DQ'd and worse if you are deemed a threat to our races. We do not have the silly PRC rules, nor does POC, PCA, BMWCCA or others.
It seems that our class has grown with up to 15 cars at one event last year, as have other regions around the US. While NorCal 944 Spec has nearly evaporated. We need to get it growing! My son in NorCal bought a Spec car last year and while the cars needs more work to be at the front of the pack, he wanted to race with us. He was told that he needed to take a race school even though he is probably a better racer than many, so he tried. He could not make any SoCal schools as they conflicted with his motorcycle races, so he took a NorCal one. He felt that he was not welcome with PRC and was not treated well, so he has little desire to race with them. He changed and actually raced with NASA in PT and received his license. He has decided to race with SoCal when he can and to maybe race in PT in NASA NorCal to avoid PRC. BTW, he has 3 people that want to buy a 944 Spec to race, so he is planning to build at least one more out of the 944's that he owns. It would be a shame to alienate them with a situation that is unlike the rest of the country.
I don't know the solution, but what I do know is that is what is happening in NorCal is not benefiting the 944 Spec Class. Several of us down in SoCal would like to come up an play with whoever is left in NorCal, but we are hesitant due to the unusual rules and extra costs involved. This is probably not the place to discuss this, but it does need to get resolved before there is no one left in NorCal who wants to race in a 944 Spec class.
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Chuck Sharp
San Diego, CA
1986 Spec 944 #58
Red / Twin White Stripes
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ioport
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Comp School
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Ron/Chuck,
Your points are valid, but the fact is that Group C is Way-Over-Subscribed. The proper person to talk to is our Series Director, Ken Huey. If you want to bypass Ken, talk directly to Jerry. His phone/email/door is always open. I would not recommend a petition, it will only get you in trouble with management.
I agree that SoCal has a great group of 944s and NorCal has lost almost all of our drivers. I don't think even one driver has dropped out because of PRC, but rather due to personal reasons like money and family. But, drivers can be reluctant to drive under the PRC rules--and I don't blame them. I don't like their rules either, but I can abide by them. It is like playing checkers or chess. It is the same game board, but different rules. I would rather play chess, but PRC is playing checkers (and, yes, charging more to do so). I don't think we can have two groups with different rules on the track at the same time, unless these are minor differences.
As far as Greg is concerned, he was not welcomed as he expected. He came in at a bad time for the PRC management--rainy day and crashes--and I'm sure the PRC management was STRESSED!!!! If this had been Group C, they would not have been so stressed, because Group C has A LOT of crashes and who cares? When Group D has crashes, $100,000 cars are totaled and PRC loses car count and then they are asked to accept the BMWs into their group.
I have conversed with Greg and I hope that he will change his mind about the PRC and come play with us in May.
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Ken Myers
I/O Port Racing Supplies
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Atteberry
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Seasoned Racer
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I have run with NorCal 6 or so times and PRC is a minor negative. While I felt welcome with the other 944 drivers as it relates to PRC I never felt welcome. It only advantage is that the run group has fewer cars so the track time is a little better and on occasion you can out run a 911. NASA NorCal has a reputation of running very large race groups. The PT race group can be a challenge in that they jam a lot of classes into that race group and the speed differential can be quite large which makes for a more intense racing experience. As an example I have raced with SU and PTD in the same group. Part of this is the result of PRC having an exclusive race group. Given I would come up to learn the track for nationals the points mean little to me. Avoiding the extra cost, extra rules, extra meetings and the unwelcome atmosphere I will run in PTD. No need to pay extra money to someone who does not want me in their race group. Maybe if several of us from SoCal come up the NorCal 944 racers can sign up for PTD that weekend. While not in April I plan on coming up in August.
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