Look,
Toyo and NASA have jerked us around on this. That is clear. Toyo said the R888 was "improved". Well they failed on that one. At best you could say it is a wash. Believe me I have worked on these R888 and don't hate them as much some others. Still lap vs lap time they are a wash and they don't last. So R888 = fail.


NASA made the mistake of listening to Toyo. Well I can't really fault them for that. RA-1 is great tire and Toyo said the R888 better. So NASA does a little test and nothing bad comes up. Then they go for it. As it turns out there are problems and NASA try to react to them. Certainly not perfect, but they did try. So in the end they pushed and we are back on the RA-1.


Now what other tire can we run? Earlier this year I was taking to people about "other tires". Bottomline is there is not much out there. The only candidate is the Nitto which being owned by Toyo makes for a strange relationship. Taking all the crappy poltics out of it the RA-1 is STILL THE BEST TIRE FOR 944 SPEC.

This does assume that the "new" RA-1 is the same as the old RA-1 and we don't get jacked in price.

One really had thing is that the last 12-18 months have been about tire development. Now I believe that you need to develop your tire for you car, but constantly changing tires is bad for a class like ours. It is one thing to tune the chassis to the tire, but another to always be changing the tire FORCING set-up changes.

My feeling is we go with the 225/50 R15. It is a tire we have a long established history on. The tire has no real vices and we know how long they last. We know how they respond to shaving. We know how they respond to driving style and we know what is a good basic set-up to get good lap times and good life. Frankly the RA-1 is key to building the class in the first place.

A 205 vs 225 is another change. Sure spec E30 guys run them, but they are running similar lap times, but with 20+ more hp. Spec Miata guys run as fast, but with alot less weight. So lets keep the 225/50 R15. I still am concerned about a large price gap to the 205, but if it remains reasonable as Steve pointed out the change will be more hassle than the benefit.

Lets also remember that we had 34 cars at Nationals. The second largest class. This means we are force. Toyo will notice us consiering we got the big payout. If we were a 10 car class maybe our size would be more easily overlooked, but I believe we are large enough for them to take notice.

Again before we run away from Toyo lets consider on paper what other tires we would run to? Lets not just "f-up Toyo" and by doing, put us on an inferior tire. The R888 may not be ideal for the class, but I have yet to find a tire better than the RA-1.

I never once suggested we "run away" from Toyo (and I know you weren't implicating me Joe) but I was hoping for a discussion @ Nationals to consider the other size, which never took place. Look, I work for the trackside tire support vendor for the Great Lakes/Mid-West, Northeast and Mid-Atlantic. With all of the info that we have gathered over the past few months, we both are fully convinced of a major price increase in 2010. In addition, this increase will more than likely NOT be relative between the 205 and 225. Meaning, you will see a larger increase in the 225 versus the increase in the 205. Finally, supply issues are coming to mind here. There is not ONE 225/50-15 RA1 in the country and there are many that need them, namely me as I have been on the R888's from the onset. I am just concerned that next year, the 225's will be more expensive with less availablity than the 205's. But, I guess we will just have to wait and see and react after the fact rather than before it.

The issue was brought up, but since it is entirely based on cost... and since we don't know the cost numbers... We can't say yes to the 205. We know it has some issues. Now if we KNEW the prices for 2010 we could evaluate it much further.

I don't see a large list of drivers pushing for the 205. What I see are guys tried of changing tires and want some stability. To me that is a 225/50 RA-1 at a reasonalble cost.

Very good points from both Joe and Michael.

Here in SoCal, I personally have not yet seen a shortage of RA1's in 225. That could clearly change in 2010 but we'll have to wait and see.

I would prefer to be able to proactively act to facts (both price and availability) but it is not a good idea to proactively act on rumors/speculation.

If Toyo does indeed disproportionately increase the price of their 225, that may be a good time to start looking at other alternatives.

Yup, like Steve said, good points have been made, but we need solid info before we can make any changes. That's the frustrating part because we aren't being told much and it's all just a guessing game right now. The one thing that is clear is that there is a growing number of people, both in 944-Spec and in other classes, who are done being jerked around and are looking to take control of their own well-being.

I think we should keep our other potential options in mind and explore them a bit, so that we have most of the information we'll need, when it comes time for us to make any decisions...

According to Bryan, Toyo will not be supplying any 225's until into December because of a shortage.

Make your tires last, my friends.

Big Dog