Help me out here...

I was way down on power at nationals combined with a bad waterpump I'm in the need of a fresh motor. My motor was a three year old "Pro" built motor by Exotic Motorsports in phoenix, and it cost $3-4K all in. Nothing special, a valve job, rings rod bearings reassembly and things like rebuilding all the injectors and adding the things that would add reliablilty. Fresh rod bearings and a dyno run before last years nationals was 127hp.

So if I wanted the killer motor what would I do? The head could be shaved, or I could dump the whole thing and go buy a 107k mile 88 motor from another local racer and build it up. That would give me the automatic compression bump that shaving the head on the earlier motor will. I can go through and select a light group of factory rods. I can do a good valve job but its got to be a standard job, no "light porting three angle cuts. I can run clearances as loose as I want, which will give me less friction but the motor won't last as long. I hear tell of a lighter crank in the later cars, so that would save me some rotating mass, I'm not allowed to play with cam timing or grind, so all I could do is have a cam reground to factory standards... little tricks like port matching the gaskets and playing within the factory clearances are just good engine building... Where's the mystery here? If theres a silver bullet I'm not seeing it...seriously I'd like the list...I've always liked the simplicity of the 944spec rules, you can do it if the rules say you can, otherwise you can't:

cam timing? illegal (unless you use an old belt to retard the cam)
altering cam grind? illegal
piston lightening? illegal
boring the block and resleeving? no advantage over a factory block...
port matching, porting multi angle valve jobs? illegal
bigger valves? illegal
eliminating balance shafts? illegal
crank lightening? illegal (is there a lighter year for cranks?)
rod lightening? illegal (any benefit to running different combos of rod/crank/piston with differnent head?, an old ford trick is to grind and and resize the big ends, and deck the block to make up the diffence to get shorter throw for more rpm but I don't see it helping a 44,a stroker would be better..)
Thinner head gasket? Longer plugs? anything to alter the static compression ratio is illegal and would be the easiest thing to identify...
Windage trays, knife edging cranks? illegal just the baffle is ok
Light weight oils? really? at your own risk...
DME is fixed, chips? illegal
AMF? I think you only Loose power by messing with it...
Throttle bodies? illegal
Exhaust? no headders but this is a real potential but its always been free...
Blueprinting the injectors or matching them? not a bad idea for engine longevity and will effect power, a smart thing on any engine...

Help me out here, what specifically are people doing to make gobs of power? Any builder pro or not are dealing with the same physics...no voodoo involved. I really think there are too many generalizations, and if anyone thinks that somebody has some special voodoo, what the hell is it specifically?

I'm not being coy about this, but lets have specifics...

JrIchards, I can't tell you where this extra power is coming from. There is some lattitude in the ecu to make the motor run 3% leaner. I've heard Jon Milledge claims his 944 Spec legal heads will net you 10 hp. So there must be something in there that's legal that can get you more power. All I know is that I don't care to spend 2800 dollars for that 10 hp.

Eric, one positive solution you can work towards is getting NASA national to get Toyo to bring down the price of our size RA-1. 175 a tire is nuts. I can get BFGoodrch R1's from the Tire Rack for that price. NT-01's are 35 dollars a tire cheaper, that would save me 240 dollars a year on tires, nearly a weekends entry fee.

Group buy? Adjusting retail price might be a stretch for what I can accomplish, but maybe a big group buy to start? Also, make sure you shop around. We have gotten our RA-1's for in the low 150's per tire from here: http://www.frisbyracetire.com/showproducts.php?catid=2&subcatid=6(they give 944 Spec racers 10% their list price of $165). Also, Nick of Bennington is now a Toyo Motorsports dealer, and offers similar prices. Some of that incremental cost goes int paying the contingencies, as well.

To clarify, Milledge claims 10 HP vs. an old worn tired head, not a new one (better marketing). It's not known how much they're worth over "standard" rebuild (whatever that means). There are some threads in the general area that talk about making power in 944 motors. A lot of it is being fussy with the little things - good plugs, wires, injectors, fussy assembly, etc.

Fussy stuff, fussy stuff???? Eric,forget the "fussy stuff".

Go for the nitrus, exotic fuel blend, ram air, superlight custom made wheels that look exactly like stock, lightened torque shaft, polished trans gears, special bearings and grease, thin brake calipers and watch my 165 hp at the rear wheels go!

Please, please, please, don't tech me though.

If someone is faster than me, they must be cheating because I am and they are beating me.

Live, laugh, have fun. I am having no more fun running at the front than I was having when I was at the back or middle of the pack. I am racing to enjoy driving on a track at what seems to be an insane speed and still feel very safe in a strong car that handles like a race car should. All in a 20+ year old former street car.

Life is good regardless of where I finish.

Big Dog

It's not about cheating Big Dog, it's about keeping cost down.

Robbie wrote:


Robbie, yep most bosch systems have fuel quality maps that can be selected but a corresponding adjustment in timing and fuel is where the power comes from, but we're on pump gas so the results are limited...

Milledge has produced some well renown ITS and cup motors but they involve head welding/porting/matching shaving, big valves, blended valve seats, custom headders, etc... In spec you can shave the head and do a nice valve job, that's it within the rules! Where's the magic? If I was real picky I'd go through a few sets of springs to select and shim for the best pressures, use new seats and valves to keep the combustion chamber volume down, making sure the lifter stack height is giving me full valve lift, which may mean a new factory spec cam grind...but the 10hp could only be the result of a shave and fresh valve job... What else can anyone do within the rules?

Good engine building isn't about spending money it's about knowledge and attention to detail...it all adds up of course...but this is all stuff your average builder or machine shop can do if you take the time...still looking for the silver bullet...
Jim